Art conservation (with The Courtauld)
If you have a background in art history, fine art or science - or an interest in any of those subjects - then this may be the postgraduate course for you. Find out more about art conservation in this episode of Future You
Participants
In order of first appearance:
- Dan Mason - editorial manager, Prospects
- Lucy Fellows - studied MA Conservation of Easel Paintings at The Courtauld
Transcript
Dan Mason: If you're looking for a career that indulges your love of art and interest in natural sciences, we'll find out about a postgraduate course that may set you on just the life path in this episode of Future You.
Hello and welcome to Future You, the podcast from graduate careers experts prospects here to help you achieve your career goals. I'm Dan Mason, and in this episode, we're going to take a look at a postgraduate course that may spark some interest in particular among those of you from a fine art, art history or scientific background or with interest in any of those subject areas. Lucy Fellowes studied a Masters degree in art conservation at the Courtauld in London. I spoke to her about what inspired her to choose this course, what exactly art conservation is all about, how it works, and where it might take her career, and possibly your career, too. It's a really interesting insight into something that Lucy's clearly passionate about, maybe an option that you hadn't considered until now. So let's get into it and see what you think.
Lucy Fellows: I'm Lucy Fellows and I've just finished a course in painted conservation at the Courtauld Institute of Art in London. And I'm here to answer a few questions about the world of conservation.
Dan Mason: Fantastic. Well, Lucy, thanks very much for joining us. First of all, before we get into the specific details of the course and your own your own career path, so to speak, then just give us an insight into the world of art conservation, what that actually means to people who don't necessarily know and and why you're passionate about it.
Lucy Fellows: So art conservation is quite a complex field. Within, I guess, that's quite an umbrella term, within that there are different specialisations. So I study easel paintings. So that's any painting that I guess could be taken off the wall and put on an easel and vice versa. So that's canvas, and wood. But it's not it's not limited to those two mediums. But it's also wall paintings. I think you can do framing, conservation, sculpture, conservation. So it's quite a broad field. Obviously, I'm going to be focusing on easel paintings today, because that's my specialisation. I think the nice thing about conservation is that it it draws in lots of different different fields. So there's the practical side. That's the actual physical restoration of paintings. There's technical analysis. So that's more close examination of materials and techniques of artists to better understand how how a painting was made. And then there's also a scientific element. So that's understanding materials used by artists, but also developing new materials for use in conservation. So I think why am I passionate about it? I think preserving cultural heritage is important because we can learn a lot about society, from looking at objects from the past. And working in conservation gives you a really privileged position to work in close contact with paintings or different artworks. And it's an exciting field, you know, involves problem solving skills and draws on these three different different prongs. So yeah, it's exciting.
Dan Mason: Okay, so that's interesting. You talk about those three, three different prongs, you describe them as, but also, presumably, then requires three different sort of skill sets as well. So it's quite a wide ranging, you know, can be of interest to people from different backgrounds.
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, definitely. You can, you can enter it from I entered from an art historical viewpoint. So the specific course I'm on you can either come from a scientific background, art historic, or also fine art. So it's these three. Yeah, it's a mixture of these three, three worlds that don't usually combine, I guess that in conservation, they do.
Dan Mason: Okay, so just tell us a bit more about how you got here, then, what's your background? What what what were your career aspirations earlier on when you were at school or at university? What did you study for your first degree?
Lucy Fellows: Well, when I was at school, I actually wanted to be a vet, and then I realised I was too squeamish for that and had to abandon that, but I've always loved art and art history theory. I studied art and design at A level, along with languages as well, because I had a passion for languages. And I decided to study art history and French from my undergrad just because they were subjects that I really enjoyed and wanted to pursue further. And yeah, and I sort of I knew, it's, I think conservation is one of those things that you know, it exists, but you don't necessarily know how you enter it or you'd never really meet people who do it. So it wasn't until I was on a year abroad in Paris that I saw, they were conserving a work by Gustav Corby in the Musee d'Orsay. And they were doing it in the actual gallery. So it was quite interactive. And that's when I really got interested in conservation and did a bit more research into how you can enter it. And here I am, however, many years later.
Dan Mason: And so, from your research, did it become clear that you needed to go back and do postgraduate study? Is it optional for this career? What made you choose to go back to university and then following on from that, what attracted you to this course in particular?
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, so for like, from my research, looking around most conservation careers, you have to have done some postgraduate study, especially in easel paintings, and that's what I wanted to do. I'm not I'm not entirely sure about the other specialisms. I think, I don't want to say anything that's wrong. But certainly for easel paintings, you do have to have to do this postgraduate course, I chose the Courtauld because it's the center for excellence. And it's in London. So you have a lot of access to big institutions in there, such as the National Gallery. But also smaller galleries, you know, there's, there's so much going on, there's so much artwork around you, I thought it'd be really nice to immerse myself in that. And it's also the cutoff is a research leading institution in art history. So it's a really good institution, and the courses, the course is renowned. I think it's a really worthwhile course, it's very practical. So I've worked on four paintings over the three years that I've been studying, which is, for a lot of courses, especially not in the UK, they're more theory based, and you don't actually get to work on paintings until you graduate. So I think that was also a big draw, for me the practical element.
Dan Mason: Okay, let's go into a bit more depth then about what the course actually involves. How do you spend your days when you're on this course? What's the mix between those three things you spoke about before? In terms of the scientific and the the art history side of it? How much do you interact with other students on the course? How are you assessed? That kind of thing?
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, a typical day. Um, it depends. So it's three years, as I mentioned, and first year is more, I guess, theoretical learning. So you have lectures. In, I guess, understanding materials used in artworks, we also did a replica course, which was a lot of fun, that's sort of the first thing you do. So there's five students per year. And that's a very practical thing, you you replicate artworks from different periods, to understand more about how an artwork is made, and the materials that go into into a painting. And that sort of throws you in the deep end to talking to your fellow classmates. So you really get to know them. I mean, you spend, you spend pretty much all day every day with these five, or these four other students. So you have a lot of a lot of time with them. And that's really nice. You really build like a strong rapport with your your classmates. But you also did say I did science lectures in my first year. So it's organic and inorganic chemistry, because I came from an art history background. But if you come from a science background, if you've done your first degree in, in sciences, then you will do an art history course. So that sort of teaches you everything you need to know it fills in the gaps between what you've already done and what what you what you don't know already. And then second and third years are much more practical. They're based in the studio. So you're working on paintings, with supervision from the tutors. And there's there's also opportunities to interact with other students from other courses and A quarter, for example, I did a Gosh, how do you explain it? It's a project, I guess, called painting pairs. And I worked with an MA student from the Catawba history program. And you get given a painting, and you have to research into the art history, the provenance, but also I conducted technical analysis on the painting. So that's sort of the fun sciency parts, like taking X rays, using infrared imaging, taking cross sections to look at the paint, paint layers and the structure of the painting. And yeah, it was it was a great project, because it's sort of how you would be working in, in the future career if you're working in a big institution like the National Gallery, or Tate or, or somewhere else that that weaves these two fields together.
Dan Mason: You mentioned one of the aspects of it is the the technical analysis side, could you just give us a bit more detail about what you mean by that?
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, so that is using different tools and instruments to understand the materials used in a painting. So for example, you can use X rays, so you can X ray a painting. And you know, just like you would X ray your leg if you've broken it, it shows you the dense elements and the less dense elements. And from that you can understand how a painting was painted sometimes, you know, artists would reuse canvases. So you can find a painting underneath an actual artwork, that's really exciting. We also use infrared imaging. So that that penetrates, well, it basically reflects anything that is absorbent of carbon back to you. So you can look at underdrawing using this technique, so you can understand how an artist made that composition, did they use under drawing, did they meticulously, you know, draw their composition and then paint it, that could also show pentimento. So that's where an artist reworks elements, for example, the hand might be in a wrong position so they'd rework it over time. And then we also use elemental analysis. So that's, you can look at which elements are in a painting and from that you can then infer the paint used because a lot of paints contain elements. So you can you can infer the pigments that an artist used, and that can help with dating a painting. So yeah, we sort of use all these different tools to better understand an artwork, and its process and its history, and whether it's been changed over time, or when it was made all these all these things can work together to help us understand something in a better light.
Dan Mason: So I think one of the key things you spoke about is the size of the course, it's five students. Sort of intimate and very different from most undergraduate courses. So for people who are considering postgraduate study in this field or any other, apart from that difference in class sizes, how would you say it differs from undergraduate study? What are the similarities? What are the differences? How did you find it?
Lucy Fellows: Um, I think for me, it was really different because of the practical element. I was in four days a week in the studios, sort of nine to five. So it's like having a job. I know because I studied, as I said, Art History and French for my undergrad, and I'm sure a lot of other students who studied arts degrees, didn't have a lot of contact hours, I think I had like four contact hours a week. So I was very much scheduling my own time. So that was the biggest difference for me between undergrad and postgrad. But I do know that a lot of other postgraduate courses are quite similar in the time management where you do have fewer contact hours, and most the time is personal study. I think conservation really is quite an anomaly in that sense. In terms of workload, it's obviously more than than undergrad I think you're expected. You know, you're you're pursuing something that you're really interested in or something you want to study more so you are expected to sort of raise the level of your work and your research. But I think I presume that anyone who's going to approach a postgraduate course would understand that it is going to be you know, on a slightly different level. But I think if you're ready for it, then it's not. It's not too much of a challenge. And it's good to be challenged, isn't it? You know, everyone needs to be pushed to sort of get the best out of themselves.
Dan Mason: Yeah, absolutely. Just while we're talking sort of more generally about postgraduate study, one of the biggest challenges for a lot of people who consider it, is financing it. When it comes to both course fees and living expenses, do you have any guidance or advice you can give whether whether generally or more specifically, to your course about how you met that challenge?
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, certainly, that was probably for me one of the biggest factors to think, is this what I really want to do, because it is a lot of money, you know, you've got to live in London, which in itself is a big expense. And then you also have on top of that, the fees. However, I'd say, don't let that put you off, because there are a lot of bursaries that you can apply for funding. For example, off the top of my head, there's the Anna Plowden foundation, I think it's called. And they provide, I think it's specifically for conservation, or at least like arts courses in the UK, they provide a lot of funding. And I think they give out bursaries that cover both fees and maintenance. Do check that out. Don't quote me on that. And there's also the Queen Elizabeth's scholarship trust, I think the QUEST. And they also offer a lot of funding. Personally, I got a scholarship from the Courtauld, so look into that, too, sometimes the institutions that you're applying to will offer scholarships. And I worked during the holidays, in tutoring and hospitality to raise some extra cash that sort of helped me throughout term time. So I think if you want to make it work, you can make it work that is there is funding available. So I know it's quite daunting to see this figure as money that you have to give up that. Don't let that put you off if it's something you really want to pursue.
Dan Mason: Yeah, sure. So the key points there are, check for bursaries or scholarships from the institution that you're applying to. But then also, don't forget that there are other organisations out there.
Lucy Fellows: Exactly. There are so many outside bodies that yeah, that is specifically set up to fund courses such as conservation.
Dan Mason: Getting back to the specifics of the course, how do you think about, in terms of your future career, as you finish the course? What were your, as you started the course and went through? How did you expect it to sort of, you know, influence? And you know, how did you expect your career to follow on from that? And how are you thinking about that now as you've come to the end of the course.
Lucy Fellows: So I guess, during the holidays in the course, I completed a number of placements in conservation studios. And a lot of students do that. So you build up a rapport with people who are already in the field. And that's nice. It's not only to gain practical experience, but also to meet people. And just talk about different options for the future. Most people who work in conservation either work in a private studio, or a public institution. So a number of large galleries have their own conservation departments, and they undertake treatments upon the paintings in the in the collection. So you can decide really, whether you want to work, public or private, both have pros and cons, you know, like everything in life. It's, yeah, it's really varied. For me, personally, I'm quite open at this stage. I'm just about to graduate, so I don't want to pigeonhole myself too much. I'm quite open to just test a number of different things and see which I enjoy. And then go from there and hopefully, figure out the path in the future. Yeah,
Dan Mason: Yeah sure. And from the research you've done, up to now, how would you characterise the sort of availability of jobs in this field? Is it something where it's extremely competitive? Is it something whether there were lots of different career paths is it a particularly diverse sector, can you can you give us any insight into sort of the the job market if you like in the world of art conservation?
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, it is quite competitive, I think because if you want to work in conservation, you have to have completed this postgraduate course or a postgraduate course in conservation. So, there's a lot of people on a similar level who were looking for similar jobs. That said, it is quite a diverse field, because you can, you can enter conservation science, so that's more sort of, you would be working in a scientific department, whether you're looking into materials and techniques of, of artists are also developing new materials for conservation, and testing materials. So that within itself is, is a specialisation that you can then enter. Once you've done this course, then there's also the practical side. So some, some people focus more on, on practical conservation. And then within that you also have contemporary and modern. So that's, that's something that in itself is, is quite specialised, compared to, I guess, working on the old masters, so you can then find different niches within, within the world of conservation. So I think it's, it's more about, as I said, just getting out there and trying different things and realising what you enjoy. You know, you may have a really strong passion in a very obscure Italian period of art. And, you know, that's what you love, and what you want to work off for the rest of your life.
Dan Mason: So just just before we move on to a final question about any advice you might have, perhaps just going back to the actual process of conservation and restoration of paintings. Just give us a bit of an insight into sort of the sense of achievement you get from doing that, how it feels to work on one of these paintings and the sort of perhaps, more emotional side of what that's like as a process because I imagine it's, you know, quite a you know, if it's something if you're passionate about art, and you're you're working on the on these paintings, it must be have quite an effect on you in some way.
Lucy Fellows: Yes, it is it's really quite emotional, you sort of, you begin and you look at a painting, and you sort of understand the problems that it has. But you really do get to know that painting as you work on it. For example, I've worked on on quite a large painting, which had a lot of structural and aesthetic problems. And I got that painting in first year and have been working on it until my my final year. And you really do do have quite an emotional attachment to the artwork, you, you know, you study it, you're, you're, you're studying it intimately, pretty much every day. So you get to really understand the artwork, you almost become an expert in it, because you really get to look at the artist, brushstrokes, their the way they painted it, you know, the layer structure. And it is a real sense of achievement, sort of looking at the photos you took before you started working on the painting. And then the photos you take afterwards, you know, the before and after. Yeah, you sort of realise how far you've come and how much and it's very satisfying to see see that process. And to see something then be enjoyed again, you know, by, by however many more generations to come.
Dan Mason: Yeah. And very different to lots of different careers. That's that thing that you've just spoke about, that you spent years working on this one? Painting, you know, this isn't a thing where you come in every day, and you're working on something completely different that you've got, yeah, you have that long term, sort of project. So it's so it's an interesting, perhaps option for people who like that idea of, you know, being with that one project for a long time.
Lucy Fellows: Yeah, definitely. I think it requires patience at some points. If you're not the most patient, I don't think it's the career for you. Some points you do have to sort of step away for a minute and have a cup of tea or whatever. But yeah, it is rewarding, I'd say.
Dan Mason: So just finally then, whether thinking about postgraduate study more generally, or again, more specifically about someone who's been intrigued by what you've said about art conservation. Do you have any final advice about how they should start going about waste? Searching if they're if they're listening to this question, and it's not been something that's considered before, whether they're currently whether they're currently undergraduates or whether they're not at university yet considering their options. What what's your advice for anyone for sort of getting started in?
Lucy Fellows: My advice would be to just do a bit of research, you know, look into the requirements. As I said, you can enter it from a science background, fine art or art history. So even if you only have one of those and you're interested, don't be put off by not having the other elements because they teach you everything else you need on the course. One thing I would say is, you can't be colorblind. Sadly, if you are colorblind, then I'm sorry. I'm really sorry, if you thought you wanted to do it. But I would say maybe, if you can find a studio near you, there are lots. Google, find studios, make contact, if you want to talk to them a little bit more. Lots of studios are willing to sort of give you a tour and talk about their day to day work. That's always good, because it gives you a good idea of what the field actually is, you know, it's, it's hard to explain without seeing it, in a sense. And yeah, just look, just just do your research. Make sure it is something you want to do. Because it is, you know, it's three years, studying full time. It's a big commitment, and it's a lot of money. And if it's not something you're really passionate in, I'd say don't do it just on a whim. But that's like everything, isn't it? I don't think you'd go to university if you weren't passionate about something. But I think I think it's worthwhile, and I've loved it and really enjoyed it. So I would really encourage anyone from any field to to look into it a bit more if you sort of have a bit of an interest or an excitement about it.
Dan Mason: Fantastic. Well, that's been a brilliant insight. Lucy, thanks very much for your time.
And that's it for this episode. Thanks once again to Lucy for joining me. And don't forget that you can search for all kinds of postgraduate courses by going to prospects.ac.uk where you'll also find plenty of advice on things like applications for post grad courses and funding and anything else you might need to know if you're considering further study. Meanwhile, you can follow and listen to the Future You podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you choose to listen to podcasts, or find us@prospects.ac.uk/podcasts where you can also find transcripts of every episode. Finally, you can also get in touch with comments, feedback or suggestions. Just email podcast@prospects.ac.uk. Thanks again for listening. And I'll see you soon.
Note on transcripts
This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.