This week I'm joined by Luke Sambridge, who became a magistrate at just 20 years old. Luke explains what magistrates really do, the skills that matter most, and why people from all backgrounds, not just legal experts, can apply
Participants
- Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Prospects
- Luke Sambridge - volunteer magistrate
Transcript
Emily Slade: Hello and welcome back to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts, prospects. I'm Emily Slade and in this episode I speak to Luke, who volunteers as a magistrate.
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, so hi, I'm Luke. I live in Leeds with my partner and two children. In my day job, I lead a department which looks at how we work for a private medical insurer. So I help them kind of redesign how they work today and how they improve things for the future. I'm also a magistrate on the West Yorkshire bench. I applied when I was about 18 years old, believe it or not, and then started sitting in my first courts when I was 20. So the role's probably been a large part of my life and definitely has been the one job that's been the longest of my entire career, if that makes sense.
Emily Slade: Yeah, fantastic. So can you tell us what does the day-to-day as a magistrate look like?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, so magistrates work on something called benches, which is basically a panel of free magistrates. And the magistrate role really is to hear about 95% of all criminal cases in the UK. So we hear the real cases, we ask questions during those cases. And then as a result, the bench or the magistrate panel, they reach decisions together primarily on whether somebody is guilty, whether somebody is not guilty, for example, or what sentences we should pass as a result of hearing the evidence. Most days when you go into court, you'll be sat there reviewing papers. You'll listen to certain parties in a courtroom. So there's the prosecution. They are the people that are providing the case, which is accusing an individual of something. and then there is the defence and they are providing the case around why that individual is not guilty of that accusation. And then generally what we do is once we've heard all the evidence, the panel will go and we will assess what we've told, we discuss it in private between us, we reach a decision and then we come back into court and we provide that decision in real plain language so everybody can understand it. It's weirdly structured. You do a lot of cases a day, but no two days in the entire 20 years that I've been sitting there or thereabouts are the same, which is really good and really interesting.
Emily Slade: Yeah, amazing. So are you on a sort of timetable? Do you sign up for shifts? Do you have to go in every day? How does the sort of logistics of it work?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, of course. So you commit as a magistrate to sit at least 13 days a year. So it's just over one day a month. Now, the way that it works is that you will put in your availability to the listings team who are responsible for arranging all of the courts and making sure that there's enough magistrates for the courts that are sitting. And you provide your availability every six months and then they will row to you to sit based upon your available days over a six month period. So you generally get told every six months what the next six months look like. which I find really good to be fair, because it allows you to plan if you've got certain holidays that you're going on or if you can't sit on certain days of the week. It allows you to put all of that information in and they obviously help you to arrange your courts around your day-to-day life, if that makes sense.
Emily Slade: Yeah, no, completely. And so you first volunteered when you were 18. So what led to that decision?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, so. back in the day when I was younger, we used to sit around a breakfast table on a Sunday. It'd be the only time that my family ever really got together. My dad worked quite a lot, so did my mum. So on a Sunday, it was family breakfast. And every Sunday, my mum and dad would get papers and they would be kind of moaning and criticising, I suppose, various things that had gone on in society. I remember sitting there thinking, why don't you do something about it? Like, it's okay, we're sat here and we're discussing the outputs of various things, but why don't you be part of that change? So I think that stuck with me as a kid, really kind of thinking that I want to make a difference here. I want my voice to be heard. So when I was slightly older, I'd gone to university and my lecturer at the time had said, oh, they're starting to bring in new magistrates, but they've reduced the age down to 18. So anybody now between 18 and 75 can sit as a magistrate. And he said, oh, why don't you give it a go? I thought, no, they probably won't take me to a certain degree. But I thought, you know what? No, I will, because I remember every Sunday being frustrated. So I did that, put in my application. It took a while, it took about 18 months and a number of interviews, etc. But I was finally appointed just before my 20th birthday as a magistrate. So that's really what got me into it really, was those early life experiences of, well, why don't you be part of the change?
Emily Slade: Yeah, that's brilliant. So you don't need a legal background to become a magistrate. So what does this interview process look like? What are they after?
Luke Sambridge: So I think that's one of the big misconceptions about being a magistrate. I think everybody believes that we're legally qualified. We're not, absolutely not. It's not about the legal knowledge at all, really. I think when I look at magistrates, I look at the skills that we're really asking for and you need to focus in on. It's the ability, first of all, to be able to listen and actually understand. I think a lot of people listen, but they listen to respond. rather than listen to understand somebody's point of view. So I definitely say that's one of the primary skills. Second, curiosity is really important. So just to be curious about what's going on, what's happening with what you're hearing is really important. As I mentioned, we're a panel of three, so you're never going to decide things just on your own. So it's really important that you work well with others to a certain degree and that you can be part of that team. And then because of the work we do, we're dealing with some of the most, I'd say, trickiest of life experiences. So, you know, you need the ability to kind of stay calm when things get a little bit tense because they will do. We're dealing with people's lives and some of the decisions we make. take people away from their family. So it can be really hard. So the ability to remain calm. And then the final thing I'd say is, I think that humility is really important. You know, we are no different than the society that we serve. So being able to kind of resonate with that, I think is quite an important underlying skill that I think most magistrates would need to have.
Emily Slade: Yeah, absolutely. When you say there's three of you, is that a, does that change each time? Is that a pool of magistrates and you're put with two others, whoever might be on shift at that time, or are you always with the same people?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, so the answer to that is they're always different. And if I think of the West Georgia bench, we must have, you know, 500 plus magistrates. And we have a number of courthouses. So you could be working in our Bradford court one day, the next time you sit, you might be in Leeds. So you're not necessarily going to sit with the same people every day. But I think that's the benefit of it really, is that you get to meet so many different people from so many different walks of life and background. I find that really interesting. So it's not like you go into work and you're meeting the same people every day like you would do in your normal work life. It's, you might be sat with somebody that's a nurse one day, you might be sat with somebody who's a mechanic the next. And they all have different stories and different, you know, views of the world. So I think that's probably one of the big benefits. about being a magistrate is the ability to meet so many different people that you wouldn't necessarily meet in your day-to-day job.
Emily Slade: Yeah, that's brilliant. So you've obviously spoken about how intense it can be. Do you find that if it does start to emotionally affect you, is there support in place for the magistrates to help them with that?
Luke Sambridge: I think the role that we do, It can be really hard, as I've mentioned before. And I think you have to be very comfortable with the decisions you make. However, it's a panel of three. So not every time do you walk into what we call the retiring room, our private room where we meet to discuss. Not every time does your opinion end up being the full opinion of the bench? You might go in thinking one thing, you talk, you discuss, you're challenged by your colleagues in the right way, et cetera. And you might end up with a different view. And sometimes that can be a little bit hard, number one, to kind of take that on. I think the second piece is sometimes the outputs of what we do. It impacts real people. It impacts real lives. This isn't a soap opera. This is reality for people. And that can sometimes sit with you. But you're extremely supported. You're supported not only by your bench or your panel. We have a wider panel, which is the Bench chair who looks after every magistrate who sits within West Yorkshire. And there's a number of them throughout the UK. And they're there for support as well. In addition, we have a lot of support provided in terms of, you know, if you want to talk to somebody, I think they would be very similar to employee assistance programmes that maybe other large corporations give. So you have a lot of this information and a lot of support around you, but as well as that, your training and what you're training to do also supports you with those big decisions as well. So you're certainly not on your own. And over the last, you know, 20 odd years I've been doing this now, when I've needed help and assistance, it felt more like it was in abundance than me having to go and search for it.
Emily Slade: Yeah, brilliant. So how has being a magistrate impacted you professionally? Has it helped you with your chosen career path?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, so I've been a magistrate longer than I've done anything else in my life really. And, you know, joining when you, when I was in my 20s, I was at the, right at the start of my career. I'd gone to uni, decided wasn't necessarily for me and started in totally different direction. And it really has helped me. It's kind of shaped who I am and how I think. And it certainly impacted my leadership style. So I think through the work and through sitting in court, you see the reality of people's lives and that reality might be different to yours. And that enables you to build quite a lot of empathy, but it also gives you a clear insight into all of the various corners that society have. And I think it allows you to learn very quickly how to ask good questions and then how to make decisions, sometimes with incomplete information. Now, I mentioned courtrooms are not like what you see on soap opera dramas. You don't know who the victim is. You don't know whether the person in front of you is done. what they said they've done, or what's accused against them. You just have to take the evidence that you get given. So, and then use that to then come up with a decision and a sentence. So I think it's really helped me have the ability to use information in that way and still to come to decisions. I think at work, what I do here is that it helps me provide clarity in the leadership that I give. I can give, I can ask good questions to understand what's happening across the business. And then I can sometimes make decisions when I don't have all of the information. I think that's quite a strength that's helped me in my career. And then I think in my work, in my home life as well, I think it's also helped me there. I'm raising two kids in a very busy world, right? I'm a gay dad. So it's given me a different perspective on, how to help my kids grow up. And I think it's also had such a huge impact on how I now try and help them navigate the world through their eyes as well.
Emily Slade: Yeah, that's wonderful. Amazing. Volunteers are expected to sit for at least five years. So And you've obviously done much longer than that. How has that been balancing that commitment alongside, as you say, raising two children, doing a variety of jobs? How have you managed to balance that?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah, it's not been easy. And I think any, I think anybody with kids, without kids, busy work life, busy social life, we've all got things on and life goes on 100%. So it's not the easiest, but I think the team in court, they're really helpful. So being given the opportunity to know where you are going to be six months in advance, I don't think we get that in life very often, which is really helpful. But they're also extremely flexible. So if something does come up and life's admin does get in the way for you, which it does for us all, right? They will move things around when they can, and they will support you to get the most out of what you need to do with the court team. I think from work, I've had a number of different careers. with different organisations. And there hasn't been a single organisation which wasn't supportive of their employees doing some form of civic duties. So I've been really lucky within my career that both at home, I've got a great partner who helps, Within the court team, we've got a great team who helps you get the most out of your time in court and will help you if things come up. But also I have a great employer and have done who recognises the importance of volunteering in your community. So I think with some forward planning and a bit of realism that you're not always going to get it right, you can quite easily fit this into your life.
Emily Slade: Yeah, perfect. What challenges have you faced in the role? You've talked about how intense it can be, how sort of emotional it can be, but what would you say the main challenges of the role are and how have you dealt with them?
Luke Sambridge: One of the biggest challenges that I faced in being a magistrate is that I became a magistrate at the age of 20. And, you know, back then it was a lot more unusual than it that it is today. And I'm being really open and honest. It was a bit, because of the unusual nature of it, I did experience some prejudice when I first started, although that was from a minority. Right. But I definitely experienced a challenge of why are you here? What life experience do you have, for example, which was really something that, I hadn't necessarily considered until I started. But what was really, really good is that I'd had a real supportive group around me who helped me settle in and kind of grow my confidence and then find my voice. And I think over time, the wider bench saw me as being young, fair enough, you can't get away from. seeing that I visibly look a lot younger. But I think they saw that youth and the fact that I have a different life experience and I had a different opinion on things that were happening. And they started to see that really wasn't a weakness. That was actually a strength. And I think what they started to realise is I started adding to the conversation. It was adding to the strength of the decisions that were made because I opened up, a 20 year old mind and everything that 20 year olds do within the discussion. And I think it was that early kind of experience that whilst it was a challenge and whilst it was a personal challenge, it taught me a lot about the bench makeup and how diversity does really strengthen like the end result in terms of justice as well.
Emily Slade: Absolutely. Have you found in your time working in the courts, there are more younger people joining? And do you see that happening more than when you first joined 20 years ago? Or is it still a sort of certain age group of people that apply?
Luke Sambridge: Yeah. So when I first joined, it looked very different. than what it looked today. And I had some funny stories when I first joined because I think people presumed I wasn't actually a magistrate. A couple of instances told I was sat on the wrong side of the bench, which was quite funny for me. I took it quite light-hearted. It was quite sweet. I can't get away with that anymore, just to be really clear. So, but I think now when I look across and I walk into, our retiring rooms, if I sit with the panels that I sit with, today more than ever, the panel is looking reflective of society. There's young people, there's people that are slightly older, there are different parts of society within the bench, they all come from different backgrounds, different ethnicities. So I think it's a lot, lot better. I mean, we've still got some way to go, but I look at the difference and it's day and night, I would say, between when I first joined and I was probably the youngest and looked the youngest by a very long way versus now, there is a huge mix. You look around the room, and you go, do you know what, this is society. This is exactly the melting pot that we should have in here with all different opinions. So I think it's a lot different. I would like to see it still go further and I think we should always strive to do better, but it's a lot, lot different now.
Emily Slade: Yeah, brilliant. It sounds like such an invaluable experience that that's really great that we're starting to see a much wider range of ages. And especially young people, it feels so invaluable to get in quite early, to be able to grow their confidence and grow their voices in the ways that you've described.
Luke Sambridge: And I think what's really interesting just on that is, I think a lot of magistrates and people that view magistrates, I think they believe still today that, you know, they're all quite older, all come from middle, yeah. middle class backgrounds or above, extremely well educated, must have gone to do X, Y, and Z in their careers. I think what's really exciting and what I love about it is a magistrate now, in today's world, can come from every background that you can imagine. And probably your listeners have already spoken to a magistrate without even realising it. So, you know, that person that might have served your coffee this morning or the person that was on the till in the supermarket over the weekend, or your local mechanic, or that call centre worker when you're trying to sort out your internet, for example, any of them could be a magistrate. And some of them probably are. And I think that's really important for people to remember. Magistrates are not on a pedestal. They're not something different. They're just you and me. They're just people. And I think the more we can get that kind of psychological thought going through our brains, the more important people will realise, well, actually, I could do this. And, there is nothing stopping me applying.
Emily Slade: Absolutely. If somebody wanted to begin the application process, what advice do you have for them?
Luke Sambridge: So the first thing I do, and this wasn't available when I joined, but it's great now, there's a new website called I Can Be A Magistrate. I believe it is. And that has some real great information on it, videos and various things you can look at. So first and foremost, I'd say is go and have a look on the website. It answers a load of your questions. But once you've done that and once you've applied, there's a couple of things I'd probably say. The most important thing is don't change who you are. So When you're going through the application process, just be yourself. Because that's what we're looking for. You as an individual and what you bring to the melting pot. Be clear on like how you think and not necessarily what you know. As I mentioned, you don't need to be good with law. So it's more about how you think. It's really helpful if you think about examples where you've be fair, you've had a difficult decision to make, or you've provided some judgment. And then go and visit a courtroom and see what it's like. And especially if you go to any court building and you explain, you know, you want to be a magistrate, you've applied, they'll look after you, they'll help you see the process if that happens in court. And then just be really open and curious and grounded about yourself. So during the process, they do ask you some weird and wonderful questions that you might not be asked in like everyday job interviews. Just be open with kind of trying to unpick yourself a little bit and just be open and honest with what your thoughts are. Because what they're looking for is like that real person. who cares about doing the right thing. They're not looking for a cookie cutter version of who you believe a magistrate is. So that's probably my biggest advice in terms of going through that application process.
Emily Slade: Yeah, fantastic. Do you have a favourite part of a typical court day?
Luke Sambridge: I think everybody would answer this in a slightly different way as a magistrate. But there's one thing I kind of really like. And that is when as a panel, you reach a fair decision and you then go in and have the opportunity to explain that decision to the court. And it's the moment where you can see the court settles. So up to that point where the decision is being argued, I suppose, for and against, there's a, there can be a tenseness in the courtroom. Once you've gone out and you come back and you provide that decision, you can see the room settled because people, they might not agree with your sentence or your decision, but people understand why and how you come to reach that decision. There's this, all of a sudden, there's a, there's a sense of, oh, we understand that goes into the courtroom. And I think It's moments like that I actually really like, because up to that point, there's been a lot of uncertainty for someone. And now there is that certainty. And I think that's what shows, you know, being a magistrate at their best to come up and provide certainty where otherwise there wasn't. So it's probably that part.
Emily Slade: They're fantastic. That's brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today.
Luke Sambridge: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's been great. So thank you.
Emily Slade: Thanks again to Luke for their time. For more information on volunteering as a magistrate, you can check out the show notes below. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd love to hear from you! You can contact us on podcast@prospects.ac.uk or you can leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you, as always, for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.
Notes on transcript
This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.
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